• letraset@feddit.dk
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    11 days ago

    It’s great that Bluesky is gaining traction, but how sure are we that it won’t turn to shit before other relays come online and make it actually decentralised?

    • peregrin5@lemm.ee
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      11 days ago

      We aren’t sure. It’s still a billionaire owned social media. For some reason people are too afraid of the freedom actual decentralized social media gives them and they want a billionaire behind the scenes running everything and coralling them to the correct opinions.

      • Godort@lemm.ee
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        11 days ago

        It’s not fear of the freedom, it’s choice paralysis. People want to go to one website, sign up for one account and then be part of a network with absolutely zero research beforehand. I like the fediverse, but the barrier to entry is higher than that because it first requires you to understand the technology at a base level.

        Internet services getting shitty and then dying is nothing new. Look at MySpace, Digg, or any BBS. people just abandon the old one and join the new popular one. They’ll leave when it gets shitty enough and join the new thing

        • peregrin5@lemm.ee
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          11 days ago

          I think it’s also a lack of tech understanding. I know how easy it is to fork a repo so I get how great the fediverse is with all the services being FOSS and anyone can create an instance. This major benefit makes no sense to someone who doesn’t even know what a git repo is or the difference between free (but you are the product being sold) and FOSS.

        • Baggins@beehaw.org
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          11 days ago

          Right, so we just trade in our relatives for some new ones.

          That’s the attitude that puts people off.

          • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
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            11 days ago

            At some point you have to jump ship and follow what fits you and your needs/wants in terms of security, morality (in the context of Meta and its complete lack of ethics), etc. You can try and get folks to try other platforms but most of them will inevitably fall back to what they know and never leave. I’m not going to keep Facebook around on the off chance that one relative needs to reach out. The relatives willing to actually make an effort can already text or call me and vice versa.

            This whole billionaire social media prison is not something I’m willing to keep destroying my mental health on over some “blood is thicker than water” bs.

            • Baggins@beehaw.org
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              9 days ago

              Yeah I get that, it’s why I don’t use FB anymore. I keep WhatsApp for close family though. They’re is no other option. And dont tell me to use text. Doesn’t cut it.

              • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
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                9 days ago

                Oh, no I get it. I went to Chile a few years ago and it made me realize how truly big the WhatsApp community was in South America. It was on billboards, buildings; it’s become a necessity.

  • EtzBetz@feddit.org
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    11 days ago

    Aah, rather choosing the next company which can turn into corporate bs than using federated Mastodon. I don’t get people.

    • IEatDaGoat@lemm.ee
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      10 days ago

      Even as a Lemmy user, I still don’t know how the Fediverse works completely. You’re just lying to yourself if you think understanding Mastodon is easier then just making a blue sky account.

      • tangentism@beehaw.org
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        10 days ago

        Do you understand how email works? You dont have 1 centralised email server. You pick one and thats your email address name@emailserver. It then talks to other email servers unless its blocked emails from that server.

        In principal, Mastodon and Lemmy are exactly the same.

        • SteevyT@beehaw.org
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          10 days ago

          In the office that I work in, I’d be surprised if I’d need more than one hand to count how many people would understand this.

        • pixelpop3@beehaw.org
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          10 days ago

          I keep seeing this analogy and unfortunately that’s not how email servers work so it never really helps honestly. The servers are the To: fields, not the From: fields. And there’s also no real analogy about privacy. With most email providers the intent isn’t that everyone reads everyone else’s email. So frankly I really don’t know what insight this is supposed to provide if it doesn’t behave like email.

          And there’s a big safety difference. With something like Bluesky you have to trust the server admins to behave. With ActivityPub you have to trust each and every user of the service. Which is why server admins get shirty about whether they will forward messages to or from other servers. That whole situation doesn’t really exist with email. It’s not like you have create a Hotmail account because Gmail has decided to defederate with Google or whatever.

      • EtzBetz@feddit.org
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        10 days ago

        I didn’t say that. But it’s still not that complicated, as someone else also replied with the email example

          • EtzBetz@feddit.org
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            8 days ago

            I keep seeing this analogy and unfortunately that’s not how email servers work so it never really helps honestly. The servers are the To: fields, not the From: fields.

            Okay, I know that the sender of a mail can be faked to a certain degree, but if stuff is setup correctly on both ends, you can verify that an email actually is from where it is saying it is.

            Even if anyone could use any email-address to send from, the point still kind of is the same: You don’t have one single mailserver, where the people are required to be on that server in order to message other people on that server, but you can send messages from a different server to that target-server, where the user is residing on.

            And there’s also no real analogy about privacy. With most email providers the intent isn’t that everyone reads everyone else’s email.

            This is true, but it isn’t the point either with the example

            So frankly I really don’t know what insight this is supposed to provide if it doesn’t behave like email.

            The point is that with Twitter, Bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, every one of those platforms is closed to the outside (even tho I think Bluesky is or was thinking about opening to ActivityPub?), you create an account on Facebook and you can use Facebook, message everyone on Facebook.

            With Mail, if you want to write Mail, you need a mail account from any provider, like Google (Gmail), Microsoft (hotmail?), or can host it yourself on a server of yours. Then you can write a mail to anyone who also has a mail account (which your server hasn’t blocked and whose server hasn’t blocked your server, which happens for example when your server is misconfigured and is allowed to send malicious mails).

            It’s the same with Mastodon/ActivityPub, if you want to message someone on ActivityPub, you need to choose any provider (Mastodon/yada yada/…) or can host a server yourself (which in turn can block other servers and can be blocked by other servers).

            Of course there are technical differences and mail usually is 1-to-1 (there exist mailing lists though, which is basically 1-to-many/all), encryption is handled differently, but the key in the argument is that you need to choose one provider out of a list or can host yourself and after that you can message (mostly) anyone on other providers.

            And there’s a big safety difference. With something like Bluesky you have to trust the server admins to behave. With ActivityPub you have to trust each and every user of the service.

            Why do you have to trust every user? Because they can send illegal content? Users can also do that with Bluesky.

            Which is why server admins get shirty about whether they will forward messages to or from other servers. That whole situation doesn’t really exist with email.

            I’m probably not understanding the example you want to make. If you are really talking about the example I made above, as I already said, on any service you can send malicious/illegal content.

            It’s not like you have create a Hotmail account because Gmail has decided to defederate with Google or whatever.

            I wrote about this above. Mailservers can actually be blocked by other mailservers, this happens quite frequently, as written above, when a mailserver is misconfigured or also when a usually “small” mailserver is suddenly sending many mails out, for example because the admin/owner is sending a newsletter to many users or invites to some event or similar.

    • ahal@lemmy.ca
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      10 days ago

      It’s not the users, it’s the developers / investors. I’ve tried so many times to get into Mastodon, but it sucks compared to Bluesky. It lacks content and polish, so it’s no wonder everyday people choose Bluesky over it.

      The real conundrum is why isn’t there a for profit company with big money behind it, investing in ActivityPub. I guess you could point to Threads? But insert your “not like that” meme of choice.

      Fwiw, apparently Bluesky did initially look at activity pub, but found the protocol lacking, which is why they invented ATProto. I don’t know the details though.

      • EtzBetz@feddit.org
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        10 days ago

        What do devs/investors have to do with content? The users are creating the content. And then, there’s not really an algorithm rooting you in. You are free to follow the people you’re actually interested in, how it is supposed to be.

        I also don’t have any polishing problems myself. It all just works, there are nice apps, etc.

        Why would you want to have a for profit company with Mastodon? That’s what would probably ruin it in the long run, as they would go for their interests, instead of interests of users and the platform itself. Of course it’s hard surviving by donations and so on, but I think that’s the way it should go.

        • ahal@lemmy.ca
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          10 days ago

          Because you need network effect. Which means you need big money for marketing, content moderation and development costs. That includes algorithms, which maybe you don’t want, but most people do.

          It’s not that I want a for profit company, I just don’t think Mastodon will every achieve critical mass without one.

          • EtzBetz@feddit.org
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            8 days ago

            Yeah, but the network effect isn’t really the cause of the problem I’d say. If people wouldn’t just run to the next best thing and think about things, they could come to the conclusion to use Mastodon.

            Probably will never happen and I don’t see a solution for this, but it’s still just demoralizing.

    • katy ✨@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      10 days ago

      because mastodon had an opportunity for a migration from twitter and they spent it attacking journalists who started posting on there

  • NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone
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    10 days ago

    I went on Twitter to download my data pre-deletion (still nothing) and Billy Bragg was on there. What the hell?! That’s practically on a par with guesting on Joe Rogan by now.